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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 19:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Oberus MacKenzie wrote: What's really fun to watch is you accusing others of being "buttmad sockpuppets" when you are clearly the most obvious example of one. Congrats to you Goons, your tears have once again eliminated the need for you to change your tactics to something that requires even the smallest amount of intelligence.
i like that the change that prevents 254 people in a fleet welding their shoot mans buttons to one person's keyboard is somehow a reduction in intelligence needed |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 21:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
i guess i don't understand the incursion whining
did you consider adapting your techniques to use four drone assists instead of one
it's not like it's a massive change, and being a drone assist requires you to give up at most two targets and one civilian railgun to trigger with |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
guys it's not whining we swear
*fully 1/3rd of the posts are people trying to get drone assist partially un-nerfed to save having to split the attention of 3 additional pilots in a 40 man gang due to what is only legitimately excused by cerebral palsy* |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=27914
enjoy your force multiplier
now even more usable due to the castration of sentry carriers |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zwo Zateki wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:There is no contradiction, simply the fact that the potential harms to incursions, while undesirable, were of considerably lower importance than the decided balance point for drone assist. In the end any negative effect is still negligible, at worse making a second drone bunny, so it really hold no weight against the primary goal. the fact that there is a negative effect, regardless of negligibility is the exact contradiction. What makes it infuriating is that they're bowing to nullsec grunts and break highsec playstyle at the same time. Why can't just CCP realise that nullsec is just a vocal minority, irrelevant for the most subscribers? sorry bud but nullsec is what gets on fox news and the bbc, not your pissant incursion fleet |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 04:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:[quote=Ragnen Delent] Because changing something being used in a fight after one of the two sides cried for months to get it changed cant be seen as anything but preferential bias, and if the balance team can't see that as something the player base will take it as then perhaps they shouldn't be on the balance team. Considering EVE's history of preferential treatment this particular change seems poorly timed, and didn't at all involve the player base, and did involve a CSM that is particularly biased towards one side of that fight.
so lemme get this straight
if a balance change is preferential to one side in a conflict, it is automatically invalid and should not be done?????
it isn't because, y'know
it was broken
just saiyan
also pgl is on the csm and has publicly spoken in favor of the change, perhaps the problem is in your own ranks :3 |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 04:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
also the balance change was done after we won the war
so this nonsense about preferential treatment isn't even really worth the disk space it's printed on |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 04:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:also the balance change was done after we won the war
Really because your own leader pinged today that the war isn't over yet, I'll let him know that you know more than he does about whats going on. i too take all broadcasts at face value |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 04:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
I mean I'd take more stock in it if literally everyone not allied with us wasn't running so fast from the theatre that they do things like shamefully negotiate for line members to get their assets from a conquered station or fail to check their new staging system for cynojammers but the proof is in the poop pudding I guess |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 04:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
oh if you need more examples about how THE WAR TOTALLY ISN'T OVER YET GUYS SERIOUSLY I can provide them but it would be gauche of me to publicly air every bit of embarrassing anecdotal evidence
back on topic
drone assist nerf good
fire bad |
|

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 04:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Must be forum CTA night. Grinding INK towers is really that boring? All GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] members have an innate ability to detect whiny shitposting
we merely go where we are needed most |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 05:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Would it be too much to ask to keep the political meta posturing out of the thread, and concentrate on mechanics and solutions? Debating whether there is actually a problem, or what we're trying to fix, I understand, but my personal threshold broke when someone sniped p50. There's even a thread on K.com for that kind of stuff. i don't think you "get" victory lap posting |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 06:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: I thought CSM existed to be a voice for the playerbase for the betterment of the game. Not to lobby for things that their ingame entities wish to come to fruition. Doesn't seem like a very good system if that is the case, and if that is the intent behind the CSM why even have a player body to input on gameplay if it is going to result in biased opinions.
If that is what the CSM is for that is pretty pathetic, and it should be abolished.
this is mostly correct however it has a fatal flaw
a csm member is not obligated to speak for the player base at large
they are only (nominally) obligated to speak for the people who voted for them
note that the CFC has the largest organized voting bloc and we can pretty much singlehandedly decide who gets on the CSM and who doesn't
feel free to not vote for our reps next time but know that your vote is meaningless in the face of our bloc :sun: |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 06:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
fyi
at 25 mbps of bandwidth per drone
sentry drones fit into the BATTLESHIP class of weapons
trying to argue that a battleship class weapon necessarily needs the ability to engage on any given terms with lower ship sizes without using webs, target painters, or a steady eye on the angular velocity column of the overview is pretty silly
just because the current settings allow you to engage all ship sizes without respect to transversal or signature radius doesn't make it right |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
299
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 07:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
are there seriously people on page 51 who are still conflating 50 drones with 50 persons
it's like the critical thinking train derailed and caused a critical shortage of reading comprehension
let me do a math for you
a subcap can control 5 drones, therefore a drone assist will be able to handle 10 shipsworth of mans
a carrier typically fields about 10 drones depending on fit and skills, therefore a drone assist will be able to handle 5 carriersworth of drones |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
299
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 07:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Do you understand that nearly every single ship in this game has a drone bay. That every large fleet ship has a drone bay. Are you saying that nobody is ever going to carry drones again because CCP Rise made a fleet assign to 5 people instead of 1. Even if CCP Rise removed Drone Assign are you telling me that no one is ever going to use drones again. Ever.
Of course drone usage won't end. It'll likely return to more acceptable (server-strain wise) levels. You know, before drone assist sentry fleets became all the rage. That's what they're betting, anyway. BTW if you think that drone assist wasn't one of the biggest reasons said fleets were popular then looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool Its not the drone assist. Its the fact that 4000 dudes in a system are adding 20,000+ Objects that required to be tracked. That is 24000+ Individual objects. The strain doesn't change because 1 dude controls ****, the strain is the 24,000 objects asking each other where the hell they are and what the hell they are doing. Do you not understand how networking and server load works? Its not Drone assign that causes this load. Its the 20K+ Drones that are capable of being launched in addition to the 4K pilots in system.
unfortunately for your argument, drone assist enables this sort of drone usage in the first place
carriers have shitnormous EHP, can poop out lots of drones and can hold lots of drones, and have hilarious RR capability, but they have horrendous scan resolution and are hilariously vulnerable to damps, so they are probably a poor choice for fielding drones on account of not being able to lock more than one subcap an hour or other hyperbole, right?
but whoops there was a way to make the poor scan resolution and ewar vulnerability of the carrier completely irrelevant by telling your drones to fire on the same nonsense that one person is, oh and coincidentally this person is receiving full reps and RSBs from the entire fleet
now that you've removed nearly all of the penalties, you get what is called positive feedback that enables the use of drones to increase geometrically
let me know if this was too fast for you to follow and I'll break it down old school |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
300
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: unfortunately for your argument, drone assist enables this sort of drone usage in the first place
carriers have shitnormous EHP, can poop out lots of drones and can hold lots of drones, and have hilarious RR capability, but they have horrendous scan resolution and are hilariously vulnerable to damps, so they are probably a poor choice for fielding drones on account of not being able to lock more than one subcap an hour or other hyperbole, right?
but whoops there was a way to make the poor scan resolution and ewar vulnerability of the carrier completely irrelevant by telling your drones to fire on the same nonsense that one person is, oh and coincidentally this person is receiving full reps and RSBs from the entire fleet
now that you've removed nearly all of the penalties, you get what is called positive feedback that enables the use of drones to increase geometrically
let me know if this was too fast for you to follow and I'll break it down old school
Wow. Are you reading off a talking point sheet for when the resident CSM gets put into a corner by random EVEO scrub? It doesn't matter the ship size. The problem is drones pinging the server for information. 1000 Megas, cause just as much load as 1000 Domis. Both can release 5 Drones. Both fleets represent 6000 individual objects. Regardless of whether or not you assign drones on anyone or not, or their effective ehp, or their scan res. You wan't to argue about ship ehp and rep mechanics open a thread we can argue about Subcaps vs Capitals there. This thread is about a fix to as laid out in OP by CCP Rise: 1) A subjective issue - Players having fun in fleets by assigning their own drones to a target 2) Server strain caused by use of drones. His fix does not change either of those issues. you appear to have what is diplomatically considered a tenuous grasp on reality here
a megathron fleet has 75 m^3 drone bandwidth and drone bay, this is only enough for 3 sentries
also it doesn't typically deploy these drones for combat because they do fuck all for damage without DDAs and limit mobility unnecessarily
if a megathron in fact has any drones at all, it will only use them to shoot cynojammers because that's the one situation where it is warranted
a mega fleet is way better on the server than a domi fleet or a carrier fleet |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
300
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:By the way, there is virtually no mechanic in EVE that would hold up to 35k dudes being ordered to constantly use it until CCP change it. that's a pretty depressing amount of fatalism there, you should probably disband now |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
301
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: unfortunately for your argument, drone assist enables this sort of drone usage in the first place
carriers have shitnormous EHP, can poop out lots of drones and can hold lots of drones, and have hilarious RR capability, but they have horrendous scan resolution and are hilariously vulnerable to damps, so they are probably a poor choice for fielding drones on account of not being able to lock more than one subcap an hour or other hyperbole, right?
but whoops there was a way to make the poor scan resolution and ewar vulnerability of the carrier completely irrelevant by telling your drones to fire on the same nonsense that one person is, oh and coincidentally this person is receiving full reps and RSBs from the entire fleet
now that you've removed nearly all of the penalties, you get what is called positive feedback that enables the use of drones to increase geometrically
let me know if this was too fast for you to follow and I'll break it down old school
Wow. Are you reading off a talking point sheet for when the resident CSM gets put into a corner by random EVEO scrub? It doesn't matter the ship size. The problem is drones pinging the server for information. 1000 Megas, cause just as much load as 1000 Domis. Both can release 5 Drones. Both fleets represent 6000 individual objects. Regardless of whether or not you assign drones on anyone or not, or their effective ehp, or their scan res. You wan't to argue about ship ehp and rep mechanics open a thread we can argue about Subcaps vs Capitals there. This thread is about a fix to as laid out in OP by CCP Rise: 1) A subjective issue - Players having fun in fleets by assigning their own drones to a target 2) Server strain caused by use of drones. His fix does not change either of those issues. you appear to have what is diplomatically considered a tenuous grasp on reality here a megathron fleet has 75 m^3 drone bandwidth and drone bay, this is only enough for 3 sentries also it doesn't typically deploy these drones for combat because they do fu ck all for damage without DDAs and limit mobility unnecessarily if a megathron in fact has any drones at all, it will only use them to shoot cynojammers because that's the one situation where it is warranted a mega fleet is way better on the server than a domi fleet or a carrier fleet 3 Sentries, 5 Mediums, 5 Lights. Size doesn't matter. 1 Drones is 1 Drone. Trouble is unlike a human it does **** like this. >Should I move? >Yes >what location >x,y,z >TARGET ON GRID >where is it >x,y,z >should I move? >where is it?1 >yes >what location >xyz >xyz1 >LOCK TARGET and so on and so forth for every drone, and every ship on grid. Unlike you the drone asks the game what to do. You tell it what to do. It is almost double the information load on the game. Per Drone. Its the same problem they had back in the day when Ships could **** like 10 of the ******* out. Want to fix the only actual issue in this whole thread. Cut drone bays in ships that do not have drone bonuses. Drone assist is irrelevant to the integrity of the server, and is marginally relevant to discussion in fleet combat. lmbo okay let me know when baltecfleets roll out clouds of light drones |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
301
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
i guess if you are so developmentally challenged to believe that making drones easier to command than any other weapon system in eve somehow does not engender mass use of said weapons system then there's little else to say besides "gas thread ban op" because goddamn you are operating in some sort of reality alteration field |
|

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
303
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: lmbo okay let me know when baltecfleets roll out clouds of light drones
It doesn't matter what size you use. Drones put twice the load on the server than players do. If you have Baltec Fleet and their 3 sentries...That is 4000 Objects. 3000 of which are acting like 1.5 Stationary Megas. I don't think you fully grasp the concept of the load AI scripts in large volume put on servers. The problem is 100% drones. Period. Just like it was like 7 years ago. It doesn't matter if your fleet is called BaltecFleet, Wreckingball, Welp Fleet, or Dunk Fleet. alright I am gonna explain this to you slowly
when in combat against other spaceships
a megathron does not deploy any drones, at all
this may be difficult for you to understand but just bear with me here
no drones at all
none
the only reason it carries any drones is to add the barest hint of assistance to structure grinding when forced to do so because structure grinding is literally shitler
now
when a ship does not deploy drones as a matter of routine in its SPACESHIP OPERATIONS
it can't affect the same amount of lag as doctrines which rely 100% on drones to do their damage and can also scale much faster to large number of pilots due to minimum intelligence and participation requirements
attempting to go "A SHIP CAN FIELD DRONES THEREFORE IT IS JUST AS TAXING AS DRONE-CENTRIC SHIPS" is missing the special needs forest for the retar[i]/[i]d trees |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
303
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Dave Stark wrote:drone assist hasn't been changed. so which change is it you were referring to? Oh look he's going to play the "ITS NOT TECHNICALLY DRONE ASSIST IT'S THE CAP ON HOW MUCH ONE PERSON CAN GET THAT'S CHANGED DUMBY" game. i'm not playing any game. some one said drones were changed to make them easier to use, they haven't been. if people want to lie, that's fine. however they should expect to be called out on it. you've got pretty poor reading comprehension, let it go
my post did in no way imply any sort of change |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: lmbo okay let me know when baltecfleets roll out clouds of light drones
It doesn't matter what size you use. Drones put twice the load on the server than players do. If you have Baltec Fleet and their 3 sentries...That is 4000 Objects. 3000 of which are acting like 1.5 Stationary Megas. I don't think you fully grasp the concept of the load AI scripts in large volume put on servers. The problem is 100% drones. Period. Just like it was like 7 years ago. It doesn't matter if your fleet is called BaltecFleet, Wreckingball, Welp Fleet, or Dunk Fleet. alright I am gonna explain this to you slowly when in combat against other spaceships a megathron does not deploy any drones, at all this may be difficult for you to understand but just bear with me here no drones at all none the only reason it carries any drones is to add the barest hint of assistance to structure grinding when forced to do so because structure grinding is literally shitler now when a ship does not deploy drones as a matter of routine in its SPACESHIP OPERATIONS it can't affect the same amount of lag as doctrines which rely 100% on drones to do their damage and can also scale much faster to large number of pilots due to minimum intelligence and participation requirements attempting to go "A SHIP CAN FIELD DRONES THEREFORE IT IS JUST AS TAXING AS DRONE-CENTRIC SHIPS" is missing the special needs forest for the retar[i]/[i]d trees It doesn't ******* matter. CFC just spent 4 months using nothing but Domis and drones and complaining. It is not about the mega. Its not about the domi. its about the drones. The Domis didn't cause lag in HED, not more than the Carriers did. It was the drones the brought. It doesn't matter who they were assigned to, just that they were there. It is a problem with drones. 6VDT didn't have an issue, there was only what 200 Prophecies there, and Megas. Not 1500 Domis and 500 Carriers. It is drones. You could have individually assigned those drones, and probably killed nothing. Bur it still wouldn't have changed the fact when the 700 Dreads came in they went into line behind 36000 peak objects. This is why Rises fix is irrelevant. Its not going to fix the problem because people are still going to use 5+ Droens each because there is no reason not to. Get on grid. Drop 5000 Drones. GG. Fix the ******* drones. woah buddy slow down there
unlike you I was actually in 6VDT, bridged in a bomber and covops to probe down d/cs and murder them
lag was so hilariously bad that it took me an hour to kill an exequorer
I get that you are trying like hell to save your gimmick incursion brain-deficient fleet thing but you're gonna need to find some better examples than that
and I just gave you plenty of reasons why modern fleet comps will actually not use drones to large degrees now but feel free to continue wearing your blinders I guess |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Dave Stark wrote:blaming drone assist for drone proliferation is still laughable, though.. CCP doesn't agree with you. Maybe try convincing them? Or don't w/e this thread is **** anyway. i'm honestly not that bothered about them removing drone assist or not; i've made that clear on many occasions. however trying to attribute the mass use of drones to a 10 year old mechanic that hasn't been changed rather than to the buff that drone ships have received is amusing. are goons really trying to tell us it took them 10 years, and some one else showing them, that drone ships are overpowered and drone assist needs removing? come on. it doesn't take goons 10 years to figure out the path of least resistance. it's not so much that it took 10 years for anyone to figure it out so much as it took 10 years for it to become the server bottleneck
remember, this change is as much about keeping servers from being on fire as it is about game balance |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Dave Stark wrote:blaming drone assist for drone proliferation is still laughable, though.. CCP doesn't agree with you. Maybe try convincing them? Or don't w/e this thread is **** anyway. i'm honestly not that bothered about them removing drone assist or not; i've made that clear on many occasions. however trying to attribute the mass use of drones to a 10 year old mechanic that hasn't been changed rather than to the buff that drone ships have received is amusing. are goons really trying to tell us it took them 10 years, and some one else showing them, that drone ships are overpowered and drone assist needs removing? come on. it doesn't take goons 10 years to figure out the path of least resistance. it's not so much that it took 10 years for anyone to figure it out so much as it took 10 years for it to become the server bottleneck remember, this change is as much about keeping servers from being on fire as it is about game balance that's great, but carriers are still drone ships so you haven't solved any of the server bottle neck issue. they're still going to drop drones because they're drone ships. subcap drone ships are only so prolific because the cfc were told to use them in order to facilitate a change like this. that has never been a secret. pretty sure mittani even said it in one of his state of the whatevers. alternatively, drone ships are prolific because they have good prerequisites for being in a carrier... either way drone assist isn't the cause of the proliferation. removing drone assist isn't going to remove drones from the grid. removing drone spewing ships will do that. if sentries are still a better weapon system than other alternatives (see the two graphs i linked a page or two ago) then they're still going to be used. this change doesn't really fix a single thing. really I am running out of ways to describe why making drones less tenable to use in large groups reduces their usage so I will just refer you to one of the many GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] posts on the subject
trying to insinuate this is not the case is pretty well defeated at this point in the thread |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:In fact, considering what goes on in any non CFC drone fleet, which consists of Domis, I challenge CCP to prove that the game play is anymore or less passive game play than any other ship in any other large scale fleet fight.
Considering the only people who make the game play passive are CFC fleet doctrines I would wonder why the rest of the game has to be changed.
Or didn't any of our CSM members bring up that in most other fleets theres a slightly complex management of the ships other modules?
i mean that would be because they don't understand or know what they're talking about would it?
just let it go and get some celestises already
oh wait you can't, blackops farmed EMP so hard and converted so many of the renters even at half price rent that they couldn't even afford to pay their sov bills and had to dissolve cobalt edge into B0TLRD just to keep CONCORD from welping the sov so you no longer have a feeder alliance to whip into subcaps |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
a nearly 4000 man alliance disbanding due to a maximum of 40 people from an alliance who is accepted as being essentially the worst PvPers in eve
god
damn |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:In fact, considering what goes on in any non CFC drone fleet, which consists of Domis, I challenge CCP to prove that the game play is anymore or less passive game play than any other ship in any other large scale fleet fight.
Considering the only people who make the game play passive are CFC fleet doctrines I would wonder why the rest of the game has to be changed.
Or didn't any of our CSM members bring up that in most other fleets theres a slightly complex management of the ships other modules?
i mean that would be because they don't understand or know what they're talking about would it?
just let it go and get some celestises already oh wait you can't, blackops farmed EMP so hard and converted so many of the renters even at half price rent that they couldn't even afford to pay their sov bills and had to dissolve cobalt edge into B0TLRD just to keep CONCORD from welping the sov so you no longer have a feeder alliance to whip into subcaps What does sov conquest have to do with balancing of drone mechanics? the eastern bloc lacks the manpower to field large numbers of ewar ships
fear of ewar ships was one of the things that pushed ewar immune drone assist doctrines towards the forefront
not the only thing, of course, but a portion nonetheless
the destruction of one of their best hopes for fielding "unsavory" t1 cruisers in battle is pretty relevant |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:a nearly 4000 man alliance disbanding due to a maximum of 40 people from an alliance who is accepted as being essentially the worst PvPers in eve
god
damn SMA has a Blackops Fleet? zing |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
I guess I could have also used "getting more sentry carriers into fleet" as another potential upside to having a feeder alliance but EMP was consistently too poor to field them in any great numbers so I went with the cheap option |
|

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 09:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:In fact, considering what goes on in any non CFC drone fleet, which consists of Domis, I challenge CCP to prove that the game play is anymore or less passive game play than any other ship in any other large scale fleet fight.
Considering the only people who make the game play passive are CFC fleet doctrines I would wonder why the rest of the game has to be changed.
Or didn't any of our CSM members bring up that in most other fleets theres a slightly complex management of the ships other modules?
i mean that would be because they don't understand or know what they're talking about would it?
just let it go and get some celestises already oh wait you can't, blackops farmed EMP so hard and converted so many of the renters even at half price rent that they couldn't even afford to pay their sov bills and had to dissolve cobalt edge into B0TLRD just to keep CONCORD from welping the sov so you no longer have a feeder alliance to whip into subcaps What does sov conquest have to do with balancing of drone mechanics? the eastern bloc lacks the manpower to field large numbers of ewar ships fear of ewar ships was one of the things that pushed ewar immune drone assist doctrines towards the forefront not the only thing, of course, but a portion nonetheless the destruction of one of their best hopes for fielding "unsavory" t1 cruisers in battle is pretty relevant Drones aren't immune to ewar though. They can be jammed, they can be damped, they can be target painted, tracking disrupted, they can be ecm bursted, they can be smart bombed, they can be nueted and nosed. But that is still irrelevant. What does conquest of Sov have to do with changing drone mechanics. Why should a mechanic be changed in order to make sov gain easier? Why should my small gang pvp be impacted, because YOU don't want to target drones to apply ewar. Why should my incurssions have to adjust how we run because you dont want to target drones to apply ewar. Why should I have to suffer readjusting my game because your "Western Bloc" wants an easier road to sov conquest? uh
you don't ewar drones
you ewar ships commanding the drones
without drone assist, you can't dogpile 254 (hyperbole) remote sensor boosters onto a single target zebraing inside a pile of identical looking ships to counteract sensor dampening |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
307
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Posted - 2014.02.09 17:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
time for some realtalk here
what a lot of the whining and the fair and balanced GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORTS [MY 5S] counterpoints are debating is yet another blow against capital ship hegemony
people that are not us (read: the wrong people) wish for their latest version of capital ship force multiplying to have unrestricted ability to murder people in subcaps because they take more SP or something
however, attempting to prop up this behavior is like trying to swim upstream -- it is ignoring years of game balance changes to the contrary
after ccp has nerfed remote AOE doomsdays, AOE doomsdays, targeted subcap doomsdays, lowered supercapital EHP, kneecapped supercarrier drone bays, kneecapped titan tracking by adding hard damage reduction against smaller signature resolution in a way that completely ignores tracking, removed the ability for supercapitals to catch remote tracking links and remote sensor boosters, reduced archon/chimera/wyvern/aeon resistance hull bonuses, and now nerfing drone assist in a way that disproportionately affects capitals
a pattern emerges -- it's almost like CCP is trying to make it more difficult for capitals to be used as a force multiplier
it's not so much that we are influencing these decisions somehow by the dint of our existence or some sort of weird corporate back-channel, it's that we are able to take the long view on eve and, quelle surprise, we keep on being right |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
312
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Posted - 2014.02.10 00:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
you do realize that if they do manage to solve the other issues re: drones and server performance that they just won't go "oh we can rollback the drone assist nerf", right?
it turns out that the change has more nuance to it than just the server issue |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
312
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Posted - 2014.02.10 00:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
it does plenty -- it lets you completely ignore scan resolution, targeting range, and allows one person to control the entire DPS output of an entire fleet
quit trying to pretend like these issues don't exist, it's just not going to work out for you under my watch |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
312
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Posted - 2014.02.10 01:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:it does plenty -- it lets you completely ignore scan resolution, targeting range, and allows one person to control the entire DPS output of an entire fleet
quit trying to pretend like these issues don't exist, it's just not going to work out for you under my watch Then why aren't those the issue that CCP Rise intends to fix. Not once does he say that it present an unfair advantage in combat mechanics. Not once is there an issue presented with evading various types of EWAR. If those are actual issues observed by CCP why are they not being mentioned by CCP, and if those are the actual issues CCP hopes to fix, why change it from 1 assist, to 5 assists in a fleet instead of removing it all together. This "fix" doesn't even fix any of the issues you just mentioned, and doesn't even impact the ones Rise actually mentioned. uh, yes, drone assist nerf helps to fix all three of these by distributing drone triggers in such a way that they can be more easily countered with damps, jams, and the like
but keep on pretending like they don't, I'm sure you will eventually convince someone you aren't completely out of touch with reality by dint of posting more words about it than anyone else |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
318
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Posted - 2014.02.10 18:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Aatrek's School Bus wrote:Dave Stark wrote:considering this nerf is going to go ahead anyway, have ccp decided if they're going to stick with the terrible 50 drone limit, or do something slightly more sensible like a bandwith limit? nope no chance of that, your idea is dumb sorry to hear about your slight inconvenience in an incursion fleet yep because lowering the amount of sentries that can be assisted to 30 is a terrible idea. right? it is if it gets you whatever weird incursion gimmick back at the same time
we all have to make sacrifices to make sure that living in highsec is as terrible as possible |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
318
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Posted - 2014.02.10 20:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
wrong it is about the WORLD of WARCRAFT |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
318
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Posted - 2014.02.10 20:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
please stop using the word "sandbox" in this thread
using it in context automagically makes the rest of your post irrelevant |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
319
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 20:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
looks like there is zero room for adjustment
might as well give up now |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
319
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Posted - 2014.02.10 20:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: Has the CSM considered the fact that it might be better to fix the issues drone assist makes worse rather than just flat out nerfing drone assist? it seems like a very lazy change to me. short of maybe "i can't see who's targeting me so i can call out for reps" there isn't really a single issue that can't be solved by actually addressing the issue causing it. i mean, sentry drones are also common to basically all of the issues, as well as the assist mechanic. if people would have whined about it being sentry drones, not the assist mechanic would you have waved the nerf bat at the drones themselves instead?
this post is funny because it assumes that the drone assist nerf was solely due to server performance issues when it clearly is due to multiple things
I am sorry you will have to lock a target and press the "F" key occasionally but we will build a monument in Reykjavik to honor your noble sacrifice in the name of making the game better |
|

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
319
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Posted - 2014.02.10 21:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:The end result should be enough with this bandaid crap that you're doing.
Any change to any drone mechanics should come as an overhaul of the entire drone system, no just one part because one part of the player base waged some forum campaign that amounted to 10 posts a day because they were fighting an enemy that used Sentry Drones.
Change drone assign when you
Overhaul the drone code
Overhaul fighter mechanics
Overhaul the Drone UI
Fix non Sentry Drone tracking and Movement
Fix Ewar Drones
Its like "hey guys, we know that drones in general actually suck the sweat off a dead donkey's balls, but these guys cried really really loud and long about this one part, so the rest of it can sit and stew for a year while we address their cries". Ah yes, the old "throw everything in front of the change that I don't like to delay the change for years" approach, truly the best way to approach game balance |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
319
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Posted - 2014.02.10 21:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:The end result should be enough with this bandaid crap that you're doing.
Any change to any drone mechanics should come as an overhaul of the entire drone system, no just one part because one part of the player base waged some forum campaign that amounted to 10 posts a day because they were fighting an enemy that used Sentry Drones.
Change drone assign when you
Overhaul the drone code
Overhaul fighter mechanics
Overhaul the Drone UI
Fix non Sentry Drone tracking and Movement
Fix Ewar Drones
Its like "hey guys, we know that drones in general actually suck the sweat off a dead donkey's balls, but these guys cried really really loud and long about this one part, so the rest of it can sit and stew for a year while we address their cries". Ah yes, the old "throw everything in front of the change that I don't like to delay the change for years" approach, truly the best way to approach game balance Or we could actually prioritize drone overhaul for the near term instead of pretending that this band-aid moves the state of drones as a whole into some level of acceptability. Naw, it's generally preferable to knock a couple of easy ones out of the park immediately
not only does it make the game better for everyone who matters basically instantly
but it shows the player base that they are making incremental improvements rather than stagnating with their noses to the grindstone and nothing to show for it |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
320
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Posted - 2014.02.10 22:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:[quote=Promiscuous Female] The ACTUAL Player base (read as: not the folks parroting whatever posting criteria Martini issued) wants **** fixed. Not cans kicked down the road. CCP kicked the drone can down the road 7 years ago, and we just caught up to it. Kick it down the road again and we will just be back here complaining again..
CCP almost as good at moving goalposts as the Nullblocs they cater too.
Fix the ****.
Last three CSM elections electing almost exclusively nullsec candidates seems to indicate that the actual player base is in nullsec but feel free to continue waddling on with a head full of confirmation bias |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
322
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Posted - 2014.02.11 05:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
grath I guess I don't get why you are spending multiple evenings posting against this change, you said yourself that removing drone assist would be meaningless to your fleet tactics
Quote: I 100% disagree, and the removal of drone assist will have a much greater impact on sub caps than it ever would on capitals.
You can assign the drone attack command to a key, so your FC broadcasts a target, you all lock it (at about the same time cause you're all carriers) and just like in alpha fleet, your fc goes 3,2.1 fire fire fire and everybody pushes the button, shazam, guy dies. The removal of Drone assist will have zero effect on slowcats, feel free to take it, nobody is objecting to its removal in anyway shape or form that I'm aware of, in fact, i support removing all the things that allow somebody else to control your ship, like fleet and wing warping, and anchoring on another ship, its all stupid sloppy game play.
granted you have been pretty consistent on the other parts but they are pretty offtopic in a drone assist nerf thread so since you have publicly stated that you don't actually care about drone assist what are you even trying to do in here |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
322
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Posted - 2014.02.11 05:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
Also if the words of your confederates are any indication, the whole shebang seems pretty neutral as a whole to your side, so why not just relax with a glass of scotch instead of posting words on a forum about a change that you don't even care about
to wit:
Quote: If they nerf drone assign we will still use them and then just call targets its really not a big deal. Welcome to the unavoidable capital age CFC nerd #getonthislevel. Every fight from now on till you can cry to have carriers removed from the game you will face slowcats. You will need to bring enough capitals to fight them off don't know what else to say but #dealwithit. Dealing with 1000 nerds in Maelstroms , Megas , Domis whatever you wanna fly is bullshit as well. You have you're scores of chucklefucks we have our scores of capitals.
|

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
322
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Posted - 2014.02.11 05:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Also if the words of your confederates are any indication, the whole shebang seems pretty neutral as a whole to your side, so why not just relax with a glass of scotch instead of posting words on a forum about a change that you don't even care about I've stated multiple times why: An in game entity has publicly stated that it wanted a mechanic used by its enemy removed from the game, they then engaged in a posting spree and a mechanics overload to attempt to sway the game developer who in the CFC's own words "didn't see the mechanic as a problem". Changing a game mechanic because an ingame entity wants you to is the slippery of slipperiest slopes that as a developer they should never go down, especially when the rest of anything dealing with drones is in such terrifyingly bad shape. Fix drones, as a whole, not just the part that one ingame entity is attempting to twist y our arm about. Fix Afk mechanics, not just the mechanics that one ingame entity is crying about. Do this and it doesn't matter what mechanic you change because its a fair and balanced approach that the entire game benefits from, not just appeasing a portion of the player base because they waged some stupid forum war. Forum wars and propaganda wars are supposed to go on between alliances, when the game developer starts falling victim to it then you're wading deep into dangerous territory. except, y'know, you stated
publicly
that you actually wanted it gone
I'm pretty sure that even if all that tinfoil and blind goonfleet dot com jabber broadcast believing is actually true
we still did you a favor by affecting a change that you stated you wanted |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
322
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 05:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
also frankly your position shows a very low amount of respect for CCP, which is both rude and unwarranted, especially with so many of their employees being former members of your coalition
Assuming by default that CCP is too short-sighted to separate obvious player bias from legitimate game balance concerns betrays a pernicious attitude that is not needed in this thread |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
322
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Posted - 2014.02.11 06:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Weaselior wrote:you meant No, I meant exactly what I just said. Is English not your first language? Promiscuous Female wrote:also frankly your position shows a very low amount of respect for CCP Well good I was wondering if it showed given that the thread is about drone assist and is not about the CRIMINAL GOONSPIRACY I am gonna go ahead and cut out a lot of unnecessary rhetoric arguments here and just call you silly for attempting to twist your post, vague as it is, as being about anything other than drone assist
otherwise your post is dangerously offtopic
weaselior's point still stands, please stick to the topic at hand sir the posting community thanks you |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
322
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Posted - 2014.02.11 14:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Weaselior wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Weaselior wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote: Yea, cause it's far beyond an F1 monkey's capability. You couldn't manage to train your monkeys to expand beyond that so you cry.
quantity has a quality of its own Yea, just like the bigger the turd the more it smells. very true, which begs the question why you think it is a good idea to get into a turd-throwing contest with the producers of the most immense, the most pungent, the most throwable turds Are you implying that whoever has the most people should automatically win? That doesn't sound very EVE-like. It's well and good to nerf something that causes tremendous lag, but there damn well should be strategies that aren't all about who has the most numbers. If it comes down to that, EVE really will die. We need more depth to combat in this game. Removing tools to reduce lag is a step in the right direction. But we also need tools to counter bigger blobs. sorry meight but ccp's track record on force multipliers has been to nerf them into the ground
see: remote doomsdays, aoe doomsdays, targeted subcap doomsdays, tracking titans, multiple supercap ehp nerfs, supercap tracking link nerf, supercarrier drone bay nerf, and finally drone assist nerf
it is in fact extremely eve like for this nerf to occur |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
322
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Posted - 2014.02.11 15:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:sorry meight but ccp's track record on force multipliers has been to nerf them into the ground
see: remote doomsdays, aoe doomsdays, targeted subcap doomsdays, tracking titans, multiple supercap ehp nerfs, supercap tracking link nerf, supercarrier drone bay nerf, and finally drone assist nerf
it is in fact extremely eve like for this nerf to occur Nothing I said has anything to do specifically with force multipliers (btw I don't think you understand what a force multiplier is) or supercaps. actually everything you had to say was about force multipliers
force multipliers are what let you "beat the blob"
everything I listed allowed a smaller group of people to beat a larger group
ccp repeatedly and aggressively nerfs things that let small groups of players beat the blob, this change is no different |
|

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
323
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
and, quelle surprise, ccp has ruled against high SP high isk winning in every single large-scale balance change to date
it's almost like we are capable of understanding their vision for the game and align ourselves to take advantage of as much as we can |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
327
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Weaselior wrote:goonfleet has brought so much emergent gameplay to EVE This reminds me of that youtube video of BNI flying 20 jumps into CFC territory, directly into VFK at the end. They: 1) Never encountered a single hostile ship or gate camp 2) Did not even get offered a fight once they got there, even after they: 3) Rubbed their thoraxes all over the station. 4) Complained about the lack of content and emergent gameplay provided by CFC So much content.  In my experience, most of CFC territory is carebear space with no content to speak of. You never see roaming fleets looking for random fights. The only thing CFC will form up for is stuff that threatens their sov. Much respect for the Brave Newbies. They, at least, actually make content. http://themittani.com/news/19-goonswarm-carriers-lost-ju-owq
check out this content yo
have you tried an anecdote that doesn't directly support your horseshit theory |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
327
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Also I may just have selective autism but where were the EIGHT MONTHS of posting CTAs to which you refer
I'm pretty sure that the only posting in this thread has been by a handful of the goonswarm federation's elite posters and otherwise just a few scattered victory lap posts |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
329
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Well ya, they have thousands of tear filled posts about how OP Archons are and how boring drone assist makes fleets. Obviously thats concrete data, hell 3 weeks ago all the Russians in the game were going to quit EVE over it. Well until they shat all over Archons anyway.
[citation needed] |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
330
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
man someone deploy the mobile goalpost generator Is to this thread |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
332
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:I claimed that it was both lag and uninteresting gameplay, as supported by the original post. You claimed it had something to do with balance - a claim not supported by anybody, anywhere. I'm not the who should be feeling embarrassed.  Next time read the OP before replying to a 70+ page post, then you won't mistakenly think something is about balance, when it is not. actually it has pretty much everything to do with game balance, except for the ancillary server health benefits
feel free to continue sticking bananas in your ears and screaming to keep the truth of the matter at bay though, I'm sure that will work out well for you |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
332
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
taking nerds to the ownzone -- a rewarding, if exhausting activity
we soldier on though, for the good of postingkind |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
332
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:I claimed that it was both lag and uninteresting gameplay, as supported by the original post. You claimed it had something to do with balance - a claim not supported by anybody, anywhere. I'm not the who should be feeling embarrassed.  Next time read the OP before replying to a 70+ page post, then you won't mistakenly think something is about balance, when it is not. actually it has pretty much everything to do with game balance, except for the ancillary server health benefits feel free to continue sticking bananas in your ears and screaming to keep the truth of the matter at bay though, I'm sure that will work out well for you The developers of the game seem to disagree with you about their own intentions. Perhaps you know more about their intentions than they do? wrong |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Weaselior wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:You claimed it had something to do with balance - a claim not supported by anybody, anywhere. I'm not the who should be feeling embarrassed.  Next time read the OP before replying to a 70+ page post, then you won't mistakenly think something is about balance, when it is not. pinky hops, i'm sure the voices in your head say many wrong things and you occasionally interpret them as someone else saying them, but you are wrong and your inability to comprehend higher-order discussions between others is the core of your issues here you have successfully humiliated yourself enough for one day, don't make me do it more today Hahahaha man...I'm not the one who posts stuff like THIS: Weaselior wrote:you will never see a pl/n3 member actually advocating for greater tactical options as anything more than a convenient talking point: the entire basis of their doctrines has always been high-sp idiots in very expensive ships You want to talk embarrassing? Sheesh. You don't contribute anything except personal attacks. THAT is embarrassing. This implies that PL/N3 pilots are people, an implication I find to be tenuous at best |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
the thing is that with unbounded drone assist, you could actually do this if you had enough time, money, and autism
you wouldn't even need to spend hundreds of dollars a month on enough isboxer licenses to make it work, the game does it for you |
|

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
but no its not a game balance decision, see if you copy and paste the first post of the thread into notepad and search for the word "balance" you get zero matches
check mate b*tch |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Weaselior wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: You should go back and read my posts then. I don't care that DA is being changed. I care that it doesn't actually solve any of the problems, and that it comes across as an appeasement than a fix. I care that CCP Rise instead of fixing actual issues is just once again kicking a can down the street.
you merely parrot grath's argument that it should not be fixed until later because...well no reason there is no good reason not to make a simple sensible fix like this and to simply delay it until sov is fixed, that's just a bad tactic to try to get good changes delayed for no reason Im not parroting **** buddy. I am saying the change is ******* redundant. Drone assist does not cause issues with this game at all. The only time in the history of this game that it was deemed and issue was when CFC went out of their way to make it one. Period. so when the eastern bloc was using sentry assist it was a carefully stewarded and responsible action, but when we deign to use it it suddenly becomes a blight on the game? |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Weaselior wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: You should go back and read my posts then. I don't care that DA is being changed. I care that it doesn't actually solve any of the problems, and that it comes across as an appeasement than a fix. I care that CCP Rise instead of fixing actual issues is just once again kicking a can down the street.
you merely parrot grath's argument that it should not be fixed until later because...well no reason there is no good reason not to make a simple sensible fix like this and to simply delay it until sov is fixed, that's just a bad tactic to try to get good changes delayed for no reason Im not parroting **** buddy. I am saying the change is ******* redundant. Drone assist does not cause issues with this game at all. The only time in the history of this game that it was deemed and issue was when CFC went out of their way to make it one. Period. so when the eastern bloc was using sentry assist it was a carefully stewarded and responsible action, but when we deign to use it it suddenly becomes a blight on the game? Its only a blight because of the context. When an entity states they are explicitly trying to break the game to show a mechanic causes a problem that is no longer natural game function, but intent to cause harm to the game. There is a fine line between exploiting a bad mechanic and manufacturing a poor mechanic. And ultimately it is not drone assist that CFC showed was an issue but Drones themselves. Drone Assist didn't cause the server to bung up when those dreads jumped into HED the 15K+ Objects on grid did that. so now ccp has to pay close attention to every piece of rhetoric coming from its players, the greater majority of which was broadcasted on private coalition comms and not intended for a broader audience, before it can deign to make a change in the game? |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
I do like that the assertion here is that our ability to influence CCP is so strong that it literally needs to be reigned in or taken into account when affecting game balance
it casts us in a much more competent light that we frankly deserve |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
please massah the goons are doing a thing their extreme competence and relevance practically mandates that we accommodate them in every way
it is like a ray of sunshine being blown directly into my colon |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:CCP should not be making changes to the game based on the loudest whiner. [citation needed]
Correlation is not causation |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 19:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Or we could go with a 50 drone limit and deal with it. yeah we could go with a **** choice and deal with it, or we could use the feedback thread to give feedback. 50 drone limit is awesome, good job Rise. Rise gets a raise. That's my feedback. awesome job not preserving one of the use cases they especially didn't want to disrupt. a use case that would be fine under a 750mb limit. I am not particularly hip to modern incursion doctrines but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you don't take more than 10 logi on the hq fleets, so it should be pretty trivial to get their damage dealing capacity in the mix without causing any undue attention splitting on the most attention-hungry portion of a fleet
everyone else is there to do damage, they can hit the 'F' key and move on with their lives |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 19:02:00 -
[68] - Quote
please ccp my isk/hr is being threatened you will regret this! |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 19:15:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Ya lets ignore the fact that players are runnign reps and mods on their ships. This is why his data is irrelevant if it exists. I turn on my Remote Repair units, or my Remote sebos and every tick I am doing something, whether I am playing WoT, PoE or EVE. Hence why data showing player activity is irrelevant, because it isn't quantifiable. you seem clinically incapable of understanding that a mechanics change can (and, given by the sheer volume of "please no" posting going on in this thread, will) incentivize different behavior |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 19:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Ya lets ignore the fact that players are runnign reps and mods on their ships. This is why his data is irrelevant if it exists. I turn on my Remote Repair units, or my Remote sebos and every tick I am doing something, whether I am playing WoT, PoE or EVE. Hence why data showing player activity is irrelevant, because it isn't quantifiable. you seem clinically incapable of understanding that a mechanics change can (and, given by the sheer volume of "please no" posting going on in this thread, will) incentivize different behavior You seem to be illiterate or something. People alt tab to PoE or WoT or go out for dinner or do anything other than EVE because EVE is **** in Tidi. Its not because "I can just play AFK because drone assist" It "Im glad I can assign drones and play something else because Tidi Is the least enjoyable gameplay in the history of gaming, and it beats fake DCing out after 2 hours of watching my modules cycle without doing anything" so ccp should preserve gameplay elements that allow the user to go fully afk
by this logic L4 mission running bots are A-OK and you should probably set up one to many of them immediately |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 19:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
you're still literally saying that the change shouldn't be made because ccp has an obligation to preserve afk gameplay behaviors because fighting in tidi sucks |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 19:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:you're still literally saying that the change shouldn't be made because ccp has an obligation to preserve afk gameplay behaviors because fighting in tidi sucks if afk gameplay was bad, mining would have been overhauled long ago. naw, that's not even roughly analogous
an analogous situation would have been ccp doing something like requiring you to continually reaim your mining laser at the rock while you are mining it and having the game constantly veer you off the rock and people saying "but I was able to afk mine before the change you are obligated to maintain MY GAMEPLAY IT IS A SANDBOX" |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 19:44:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Fix Sov wrote:Or in the case of carrier fleets, a bit more than 25 people instead of just 1 pressing F. Still not 100% of people playing. The fix doesn't fix the problem. Either people not pushing buttons is an issue, or it isn't. Either fix it, or leave it as is. all changes must be BLACK AND WHITE there is no room for a middle ground
incidentally the full solution has this litany of roadblocks between us and the full solution so why don't you just get started on those before you even think of knocking an easy change out of the park |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 22:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
talking about all this anchoring nonsense is way offtopic for this thread
please pack it in folks we need to stay ON TARGET |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 23:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:talking about all this anchoring nonsense is way offtopic for this thread
please pack it in folks we need to stay ON TARGET Not when the OP talks about AFK mechanics, sorry little bee but its on topic because anchoring is an afk mechanic as well.
hrm let's see here
CCP Rise wrote:Hello, some news:
Coming soon, in a Rubicon point release, we are planning to add a hard cap to the number of drones that can be assisted to a single player. Currently, we are planning to set that cap at 50.
As most of you surely know by now, drone assist has been a very hot topic over the last 6 or so months. Archons began showing the power of sentry doctrines before that, and the addition of tracking and optimal bonuses for drones on the Ishtar and Dominix catapulted this philosophy into the forefront of fleet warfare. The resulting meta is causing two major problems that we hope to address through this change.
We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy. Assist places too much control in the hands of a single person and leaves the majority of the fleet with little to do. note: we spent a lot of time considering the value in delegation of ship systems and navigation overall (why not have assisted turrets? why have fleet warp? etc) and while this discussion will likely continue, we feel it depends heavily on the amount of delegation taking place. Amount might refer to the time something is delegated or the importance of the system being delegated (is it a primary system or a secondary one). Moral of the story: while some cases of drone assist can be fun, large fleets based on assist are not.
Drones, for the time being, are the most taxing weapon system for our hardware, which means overall play experience has suffered some because of the popularity of sentry doctrines.
We are making this change primarily to address the first point, but also hope to have a positive effect on performance by allowing more room for other weapon systems in the fleet meta.
Why a flat cap?
We believe a flat cap will:
Limit large scale assist substantially
Leave room for smaller scale assisting (there are several use-cases for assist that we wanted to preserve, such as incursion drone managers)
Be very easy to communicate to players
Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5)
This solution meets each of these points in a more effective way than any others we considered.
Why 50?
To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. We believe 50 will leave all these uses unharmed while also heavily discouraging large fleet use. If it turns out that fleets are still able to rely on assist easily at 50 (which we feel is unlikely) we can and will make further adjustments.
Before I go, I want to say that we've been looking at this for some time now. We've watched the discussion in the community evolve and also kept a close eye on TQ behavior. We began discussing this change with the CSM via internal forums just prior to the summit, and then spent significant time discussing it in person with them during the summit. Their feedback was valuable, as always, and gives us confidence that this is a good direction.
As always, leave your feedback and we will do our best to answer any questions.
nope, not seeing it
see plenty of talk about delegation of drones but only a passing reference to non-drone delegation and only in a comparative context
feel free to start a new thread about the EVILS of ORBIT AT 10KM if you like though and give me a link so I can participate :sun: |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2014.02.11 23:32:00 -
[76] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:
nope, not seeing it
see plenty of talk about delegation of drones but only a passing reference to non-drone delegation and only in a comparative context
feel free to start a new thread about the EVILS of ORBIT AT 10KM if you like though and give me a link so I can participate :sun:
Nah I think i'll keep talking about it here, regardless of if thats ok with you EDIT: oh and CCP Rise wrote: We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay .
I guess you just missed that bit its ok i pulled it out for you. Since were on an anti-afk kick. What would you do to address passive incomes of POS and PI? introduce a mobile deployable for the former that lets people rob a fool
let people wrestle over who owns the customs office and potentially lock people out for the latter
oh wait both of those things made it into the game :sun:
efb |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2014.02.11 23:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
also it's p adorable that you are having to resort to terrible k.com posting tactics in order to not look like a hypocrite |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 23:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:also it's p adorable that you are having to resort to terrible k.com posting tactics in order to not look like a hypocrite Try and stay on topic please, posting about posting is frowned upon in this establishment I apologize I will get back to the topic at hand instead of spending page after page after page arguing what could only diplomatically be called a related point if there was money involved in doing so |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2014.02.11 23:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: introduce a mobile deployable for the former that lets people rob a fool
let people wrestle over who owns the customs office and potentially lock people out for the latter
oh wait both of those things made it into the game :sun:
efb
Replace one passive mechanic with another passive mechanic....you should apply to be a CCP Dev. they can't afford me |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
335
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Posted - 2014.02.12 07:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
this slope looks awfully slippery I dunno guys |
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